Bellhousings

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Bellhousings

Postby Joe Leising » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:50 am

How many different sizes of bellhousings did MM use? What engines and transmissions used each of the different sizes?

Thanks
Joe
The Leising Family

Joe, Robin, Olin, and Sydney

Ollie's tractor 1955 BG
Syd's tractor 1937 JT
Robin's tractor 1949 UT

And the rest are all mine!!!! '53 ZB, '51 R, '63 100 L&G '47 Ugggly, '53 BF '50 ZA
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MM Engines & Bellhousings

Postby John McLucas » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:33 pm

Joe,
Since no one is posting an answer to your question, I am going to post some information I saved from previous posts. I am going to give the credit to the previous persons who originally answered with the information. I hope they don't mind. John McLucas

605/800 cu.in. engines

Posted by Marilyn Fellers on November 22, 1999 at 22:29:27:
Need info on whether or not a 605 or 800 could replace a 504 engine - will it bolt in or not?

Posted by Motec Engineering on November 23, 1999 at 08:18:33:
In Reply to: 605/800 cu.in. engines posted by Marilyn Fellers on November 22, 1999 at 22:29:27:

Maybe. Minneapolis Moline made motors with three different bolt patterns on the back of the motors. The R, Z, 335, 445, 4-star, and U302 all had a pattern that is about the same size. (small size pattern) The U, G (4-cylinder LP and gas), 5-star, M5, 602, 670, 283 and 403 power units have a common pattern. Let's call this the medium size pattern. The G-1000, G-900, Vista, and the AT-1600 also have the medium size pattern. All 6 cylinder power units (425, 504, 605, 800, & HD800) have a big size pattern. The GB diesel, GVI, 705, 706, 707, and 708 also have the big pattern. They did make a few HD800 motors with the Medium size pattern, but these were in the AT-1600 and sold as a power-up kit for the G-1000 or G-1350.
So, a 605 or 800 power unit will bolt in a 705 without a lot of work. It will not bolt into a G-1000. A 504 motor from a G-1000 will bolt to a U transmission. The crankshaft from a 605 power unit will fit in a G-1000 504 crankcase. Good luck.
Matt
Motec Engineering
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do any MM engines fit SAE standard mountings?

Posted by Motec Engineering on November 28, 1999 at 08:31:13:
In Reply to: Do any MM engines fit SAE standard mountings posted by Bob G. on November 27, 1999 at 18:12:04:

The motors do not have the SAE bolt pattern. When these motors were used as power unit they had an adaptor (with rear mounting feet) that did have the SAE bolt pattern. The 283 and 403 adaptor have a SAE No. 2 pattern. The 605 and 800 adaptor have a SAE No. 1 pattern. The 206 has an SAE No. 4 pattern.




M-M 605 Question
Posted by Kevin on January 13, 2000 at 20:22:13:

I'm looking for a mm 605 gasoline engine. I'm building a G1000 for farm stock tractor pulling The tractor now has a diesel engine.Would this work?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by SWest-Molines on January 14, 2000 at 08:03:42:
In Reply to: mm605 posted by Kevin on January 13, 2000 at 20:22:13:
A 605 power unit will not bolt to your G1000 trans.. You will need to find a gas crankcase to build your 605 in that will accept the 6" crank. Depending on what you want to do you might have to machine the flywheel end of the crank to make the PTO work. Machining might be necessary to use the G1000 damper pulley on the front end of the crank. 605 power units will bolt directly to MM GBD, GVI, 604, 705, 706, 707, 708. You might want to go that direction.
There were a few 800's made that would bolt to a G1000 bell housing. If you can not find one of those it very difficult to put a 800 in a G1000.

Good Luck, SWest-Molines



Minnie Motor


Posted by Ron on June 26, 2000 at 07:19:20 from (205.188.198.157):
I need some information on building a big Minnie Motor. I have acquired an 800 motor to use the heads and blocks. It is my understanding that I need a different crankcase and crankshaft for the lower end. I intend to bore the motor to 5.5 and stroke it to 7.5 to obtain 1068 CI. Any and all information on the project would be appreciated. Pistons, rods, correct camshaft lift and duration,
carburetor, or any other info about the project would be appreciated.
Is there a 600 stationary motor for the lower end?
Thanks for the help. Ron



Re: Minnie Motor

Posted by Matt on June 26, 2000 at 09:51:03 from (12.33.97.172):
In Reply to: Minnie Motor posted by Ron on June 26, 2000 at 07:19:20:

MM made a 800 and a HD800 (5 3/16 x 6). Both motors are about the same except the heads. The HD800 has better heads (10A-4227, 4228, or 4229). The differences are the valves and ports and about 100 HP more.
MM made two different size rear flanges on the six cylinder motors. The small flange was used on the G1000 504 cid (4 5/8 x 5) motors.
The large flange was used on the GB Diesel and GVI 425 cid (4 1/4 x 5). The G705 706 707 and 708 with 504 cid (4 5/8 x 5) also used the large flange.
The 605 cid (4 5/8 x 6), 800 and HD800 power units had the large rear flange.
All crankshafts have the same size main bearings EXCEPT the 800 and HD800.
If you are going to pull a G1000, you will need to use the small flange crankcase. You can bolt in the 605 crankshaft to get the 6" (or more)stroke. You will also have to cut the top of the crankcase out for the bigger sleeves.
If you are going to run a GVI or G705, you can bolt the 800 right in. Only a few small problem to work thru.
The 800-HD800 has a heaver crankshaft and rods. The HD800 stock is about 250 horsepower.
Matt
Motec Engineering

Crankshaft's

Posted by Shawn on February 01, 2001 at 16:31:59:
Hello
I'm was wondering what the exact bore and stoke is of an 800 motor, and if anybody has a 6" G-crank for sale
thanks
Shawn

Posted by Dave S on February 01, 2001 at 18:32:57:
In Reply to: Crankshaft's posted by Shawn on February 01, 2001 at 16:31:59:
Bore = 5.319 approx.. x Stroke 6.00 In.

Posted by dh on February 01, 2001 at 18:33:59:
In Reply to: Crankshaft's posted by Shawn on February 01, 2001 at 16:31:59:
The bore is 5 and 5/16 and the stroke is 6 inch good standard G cranks go for $300 to $400 and ones that are turned and need built up about $200. I have one of these I bought to make a stroker out of .
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Postby Joe Leising » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:01 am

John

Thanks for the reply. There is alot of good information there. Correct me if I am wrong though. I thought the G gas tractors used an adaptor plate between the motor and transmission. I think this was to make the medium pattern engine fit the large pattern tractor. AM I wrong?

Thanks again
Joe
The Leising Family

Joe, Robin, Olin, and Sydney

Ollie's tractor 1955 BG
Syd's tractor 1937 JT
Robin's tractor 1949 UT

And the rest are all mine!!!! '53 ZB, '51 R, '63 100 L&G '47 Ugggly, '53 BF '50 ZA
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Joe Leising
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Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: Lebanon, IN

Postby Jack Blaylock » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:34 am

Joe:
I don't have numbers for the newer 'G'S', but here is the number's out of my parts books for various models without bells. I guess they just are not in the Christmas spirit and don't call them BELLS. The 800 has an adapter which I will list the number for. It also depends on the clutch that you had on the 800.

800 - Twin disc housing # 10A13459
800 - Single disc housing # 10A1103
800 - Flywheel adapter # 11A5612

GTB - Transmission case # 10B1897

U - Transmission case (UT100B) for cane UTC tractors # UT5100B - this number changed to 10B1897.
U- Transmission case (UT100D) for Universial (UTU) and standard (UTS) tractors # UT5100D - this changed to 10B1878.

Don't know what the difference is but I would bet that the GTB and the U's will bolt together if I recall. The difference was probably a dowel guide pin which can be removed and the starter is different I think..

Don't know if this is what you are looking for, but if it help's-- GOOD. If it don't help, maybe someone needed the numbers for something....deadeye :lol:
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Postby Joe Leising » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:06 pm

Jack,

Thanks for your input. This line of questions began whenI saw a recent picture of a puller that had a UB style rear with a foot clutch and a 6cyl motor. It had GBD style sheetmetal. This got me to wondering how many different BELLS there were, and what motors would bolt to what rear end. Specifically a UB with a 585 diesel just for fun.

Thanks again
Joe

http://actionpackedphotos.exposuremanag ... un05_42300

http://actionpackedphotos.exposuremanag ... n05_461951

http://actionpackedphotos.exposuremanag ... n05_461344
The Leising Family

Joe, Robin, Olin, and Sydney

Ollie's tractor 1955 BG
Syd's tractor 1937 JT
Robin's tractor 1949 UT

And the rest are all mine!!!! '53 ZB, '51 R, '63 100 L&G '47 Ugggly, '53 BF '50 ZA
User avatar
Joe Leising
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Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: Lebanon, IN

Postby Motec » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:32 pm

The G and GB gas and LP have an adapter, but it is the same size bolt pattern as the transmission. The GB diesel has an adaptor that goes from the medium bolt pattern on the transmission to the large bolt pattern on the motor.
The 585 has the medium bolt pattern so it will bolt to a UB or a GB gas/LP transmission.

Are you saing that it wasn't stock? :shock:
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Postby Jack Blaylock » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:19 pm

Looks like the same tractor with two different guys driving unless there was two tractors that were identical. Still a nice looking hybred machine. Did (he) (they) win anything????...deadeye
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Postby Joe Leising » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:27 pm

Matt,

Sure it's stock :wink: :wink: 8) Will an 800 bolt to a GB gas or LP rear? I get the impression that it won't. What is the purpose of the adaptor on the gas and LP if the bolt pattern is the same?

Joe
The Leising Family

Joe, Robin, Olin, and Sydney

Ollie's tractor 1955 BG
Syd's tractor 1937 JT
Robin's tractor 1949 UT

And the rest are all mine!!!! '53 ZB, '51 R, '63 100 L&G '47 Ugggly, '53 BF '50 ZA
User avatar
Joe Leising
Oldtimer
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: Lebanon, IN

Postby Joe Leising » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:25 pm

Jack,

I think it is two different guys on the same machine. I don't know if it won anything or not. I just found the pictures on the net. The pictures were taken at a NATPA event at Tunica, Mississippi. It is a good looking machine. There is also a picture of a MF 95 that appears to be a similar hybrid, only they used what appears to be Massey 55 sheet metal on. It doesn't look quite right.

http://actionpackedphotos.exposuremanag ... n05_450730

Joe
The Leising Family

Joe, Robin, Olin, and Sydney

Ollie's tractor 1955 BG
Syd's tractor 1937 JT
Robin's tractor 1949 UT

And the rest are all mine!!!! '53 ZB, '51 R, '63 100 L&G '47 Ugggly, '53 BF '50 ZA
User avatar
Joe Leising
Oldtimer
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: Lebanon, IN

Postby Jack Blaylock » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:18 am

Joe:
I think those adapters on the 800's were for the different thicknesses of the one plate clutch and the two plate clutch. There was also two different lengths of the shaft off of the flywheel on those if I recall.

Yes that Massey does look a little different. I know a guy that is from LaCrosse, Wisconsin that was building one with an 800 in it, but that is not him. I think he was putting it in the MF 97. When I seen it a couple of years ago, It was strung all over his shop. Don't know if he ever got it together or not. He is an Oliver collector and his last count on tractors that were running was 31. I used to pull with him and another friend from Calidonia, Minnesota who pulled RED. He could build some horsepower also. I remember back in the middle 90's that those two bought a dyno together. So you know I was friends with them since I didn't have access to one. I used to pull RED also. My old tractor went to Emporia, Kansas. Don't know if it is still alive or not......deadeye
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Postby Motec » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:10 am

The G GB GVI 704 705 706 707 708 MF95 MF97, Gas LP or Diesel transmissions are all about the same. If you removed the spacer it would be hard to tell the differents from the outside.

The G, GB gas or LP have the spacer that keep the same medium bolt pattern. All the others have the spacer that goes from the large motor pattern to the mediun transmission pattern.

The U transmission has the same medium pattern as all of these but the input shaft is shorter.

The spacer allowes room for a double disk clutch.
Motec
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