445 trying to replace pto seal

This is the place for all things Moline. This is a general forum with the best group of people in the world. Come join us.

Moderators: a31ford, Steve Sewell

445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby jason hayes » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:13 pm

So I have been working on my minnie mo 445 for the last couple of nights. Been working on fixing all my leaks. Rebuilt the control valve for the power steering. Now I have been trying to tackle my other issue which is it has been bleeding out gear oil. It leaks at the brake seals and the pto shaft. I started replacing brake seals which has been going good. I have everything off and soaking in the parts washer. Decided I would start on the pto seal. I have so far I am at the point where I need to remove the clutch shaft. I have a repair manual and it talks about driving it to the rear of the tractor either buy using a punch on the set screw detent or using a suitable puller. So I have been trying to use the punch method because I am not sure what size puller would fit in the little cubby hole that drives the pump. So far I can not get it to budge. Also tried doubling up some washers and tightening the nut on the end of the shaft to pull it thru. The book also mentions that you can split the tractor and drive it out from the front. Which I would rather not do if I don't have to. So has anybody have any tricks or tips to help me get this tractor back out in the field. Thanks in advance.
Minneapolis Moline 445 and 2 M602's
User avatar
jason hayes
Sodbuster
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: shelbyville MI

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby MMDEL » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:32 pm

I'm a litle confused. ( which is not unusual). There is no seal on the shaft you are trying to take out. You have to take the 3PT off and disasemble the PTO clutch to get that shaft out. If the PTO is leaking which is the shaft below the one you are talking about. Pry off the dust shield and work out the seal without taking any thing apart. You might have to drill two small holes in the seal casing, screw in two sheet metal screws in the holes and using the heads pry out the seal.
MMDEL
MMDEL
Oldtimer
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Franklin Grove, Ill.

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby jason hayes » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:41 pm

Not sure if I can do that. The book has me taking out the shaft to get to the pto seal which is below the shaft. It looked like the seal is inserted from the inside. But may look into trying to remove it from the outside. Looks like someone has been inside before cause the shaft is all marred up like someone put a pipe wrench on it at one time. Previous owner may have attempted it but could not have gotten it out a gave up? I picked it up this fall. While trying to use it this winter I could not get it to roll. Found it had water instead of gear oil in it and it froze and locked it up. Now that I have drained it out and put new gear oil in it. She leaves quite the puddle in the garage.
Minneapolis Moline 445 and 2 M602's
User avatar
jason hayes
Sodbuster
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: shelbyville MI

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby John Kinsey » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:31 pm

Jason,
You can replace the PTO seal using the method described by MMDEL.
If you need to remove the PTO shaft for some other reason, I use a 18 - 36 inch pipe wrench on the shaft near the front of the rearend case, pull on it enough to make the teeth bite into the shaft then pry with a bar between the wrench and the front of the case. Clean the burs off some before trying to remove the shaft.
It also helps to spray some penetrant on the housing and bearing races at the back of the shaft (what usually makes the shaft hard to move is the bearing races in the housing bore)
*** Before attempting removal of the long shaft by any means, make sure you have removed the setscrew and the key from the hub/shaft. ***
MM PTO brake bands, R,Z Waterpump baffles & Oil filter adapters.
Still enjoy using several MM Tractors and some equipment
John Kinsey
Plowboy
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:10 am
Location: New Philadelphia, OH

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby jason hayes » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:26 pm

Thanks for the info. I just read your message. I tried again when I got home using the punch method. It will move in and out about a 1/4 of an inch but gets hung up. How long is the shaft does it go all the way to the engine? Or is it two shafts? One shaft that slides in another shaft? If it goes into the transmission will the gears come off and do I have to be concerned about them dropping. My dad stopped by to help and noticed that the pto shaft is twisted so I am I going to have to find another one. So I am going to have to get this bad boy off one way or another. I appreciate the help the repair manual is helpful but someone that has the experience of doing it before helps a whole lot more. I a going to try the pipe wrench method and see where that gets me.
Minneapolis Moline 445 and 2 M602's
User avatar
jason hayes
Sodbuster
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: shelbyville MI

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby jason hayes » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:47 pm

OK I see what you guys are talking about with the dust shield. I thought the shield was part of the pto shaft. I see now that it isn't. I was able to pull the seal out tonight. I am still going to have to find a good used pto shaft cause the one on the tractor is twisted pretty bad. I tried the pipe wrench method to no avail. I am thinking I am going to have to split the tractor. I also noticed the bevel gear is chipped pretty bad. I will try to post some pictures and see what you guys think of my parts.
Minneapolis Moline 445 and 2 M602's
User avatar
jason hayes
Sodbuster
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: shelbyville MI

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby MMDEL » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:41 am

Like I said you have to take the 3 PT and cover off and remove Nut threaded on shaft. And an allen head adjusting screw. Before the top shaft will come out. And yes that shaft does go to the flywheel of the engine. It passes through a hollow shaft in the trans. So no gears will fall off. However the PTO clutch assy will fall off when you pull that shaft. It would be a good idea to get yourself a parts book for that tractor so you can see what you are dealing with. The PTO shaft has a nut on the front end that has to be removed to remove it.
MMDEL
PS: Check your PTO shaft and see if it is bent. Rotate and see if it moves up and down at the end of the shaft. A little twist isn't going to hurt if it isn't out of round.
PPS: The bevel gear doesn't do anything unless you have a belt pulley
MMDEL
Oldtimer
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Franklin Grove, Ill.

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby jason hayes » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:55 pm

I have been looking at agco website for their part breakdown. Problem is the picture is not real clear as the size of the shaft. I figured it was a sliding shaft inside of a shaft. I see it says it is about five feet long. I have not hooked the pto up to any equipment since I have bought it this winter. I went out tonight and took a half shaft and it slide right on. I took your advice and it seems like it spins straight and is not bent one way just looks twisted. So I am thinking I may leave that as is. Only thing hinging on my decision on that is I have a call in on a parts tractor. So if the price is right I may just pull the trigger and fix the pto shaft. I may be wrong what I call the bevel gear. I see in my book its called the bevel pinion and comes out of the transmission and drives the main drive bevel gears and bull gear. I am thinking I may just leave this alone. But I am getting a price on that also. I appreciate the insight if I do decide to continue it nice to know I don't have to worry about gears falling inside the transmission. Like I said books are ok but the knowledge of someone doing the work is far better. Here is some pictures of the pto shaft and bevel pinion. Sorry the picture of the bevel pinion is so clear but could get a good picture that well in the bowels of the tractor.
100_1787.JPG
Attachments
100_1790.JPG
Minneapolis Moline 445 and 2 M602's
User avatar
jason hayes
Sodbuster
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: shelbyville MI

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby MMDEL » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:14 am

I though you were talking about the bevel gear on the PTO clutch housing.

You are talking major job to replace Ring and Pinion. (All of the trans gears are going to have to fall out) They are supposed to be replaced as a matching mating set. Hard to tell by picture how bad it is. I once traded a G1000 with a bad Ring and Pinion. (early ones had a ring and pinion problem). Had it in the shop with the top off, pinion was chipped and flaking. Customer came in and asked what I wanted for the tractor. I showed him the problem. He said how much do you want the way it is? I far as I know that tractor is sill running. You never know. There are probably a lot of tractors out there with a lot of bad gears but nobody knows or worries about them because it is hidden. Only the ones with bad gear noise get attention. If the tractor you are bidding on is in good shape gear wise you might want to switch rear ends.
MMDEL
MMDEL
Oldtimer
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:47 pm
Location: Franklin Grove, Ill.

Re: 445 trying to replace pto seal

Postby jason hayes » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:46 am

I just found a tractor that has thrown a rod. I have yet to find out what he wants for the whole tractor. But that kinda what I was thinking about just swapping out rearends. Between be and my dad we have three 445's so having a parts tractor laying around wouldn't be a bad idea. I used it a little bit with a back blade and it didn't growl or miss a beat so you may be right about just letting go as is. I suppose if it finally goes I could just turn this tractor into a parts tractor also. Going to have to weigh my options I guess.
Minneapolis Moline 445 and 2 M602's
User avatar
jason hayes
Sodbuster
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: shelbyville MI


Return to Minneapolis-Moline Tractor Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], idt-572 and 8 guests