Veg. Oil Additives

[Bret Green]

I was looking for information on converting my use motor oil (that I get to
heat my shop with) in to diesel fueland found this site www.dieselsecret.com

They sell an additive that you put in Veg. Oil + something elese and all you do is mix and filter it. Then fill your diesel tank.

Has anyone done this? If so What else do you added to it?

They sell the instructions and a bottle of their additive (to make 152 gal.)
for $39.99.

Is it worth a try?

Thanks
Bret

[Tony Turner]

Hi Bret,
I've bought the starter kit and I'll let you guys know how it works. My old Mercedes 240D will run on about anything so I figure for $50 I'll be the guinea pig.

You know Bret, I've learned a long time ago that when push comes to shove we will find a way to make things work.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Tony T

[Tony Turner]

Well, Bret and others,
It seems to me that I bought information on how to make this wonder fuel when all I really had to do was look on the web and get the info for free ---- we all learn from our mistakes.

Basically all you do is mix 85% filtered waste or clean veggie oil with 10% kerosene, 5% gasoline and a few onces of Diesel-Kleen+Cetane boost (Wal-Mart in a gray bottle) and a couple of onces of DSE (wonder chemical youhave to continue to purchase from them). Mix all of this together and pump it through a filter into your car, truck or tractor.

From what I've read in other places on the web, mixing with kero and gas has been done for years. It was the British government that suggested adding a Cetane booster and stabilizer to make it more "petro diesel" like.

It breaks down to this: 20gal filtered WVO, 2gal Kerosene, 1gal unleaded gas, 15oz Power Service+Centane boost additive, 3.5oz of DSE mix slowly for 5 minuets and put it in the tank. In the winter they advise you to up the amount of kerosene you use.

From looking at MSDS sheets I don't see why you can't use STA-BIL or Diesel Power (from the makers of Heet) in the place of the DSE additive. Sta-Bil looks and smells just like the DSE product. As a matter of fact SEVERAL groups have made the fuel totally omitting the stabilizer with no degradation in performance. There is a company in England that uses 90% WVO and 10% "white spirits" (mineral spirits) to mix a bio fuel with good sucess.

A guy in FL had this to say (on another forum):
Posted 12 March 2006 11:07 AM
"I started on DSE, and ran 100 gallons of it (about 2000 miles). I then tried the same mix without DSE's additive, and it ran exactly the same. I just don't think the DSE is doing anything in the tiny amounts they have you add it. I have tried the following blends:
85%WVO, 10%kero, 5%gas WITH DSE
85%WVO, 10%kero, 5%gas WITHOUT DSE
85%WVO, 15%gasoline, nothing else (ran best)
91%WVO, 9%ethanol, (ethanol wouldn't stay mixed) **Note added by me (Tony T): The British Gov used this mix but added a surfactant (sp?) to make a micro emulsion. http://vegburner.co.uk/blends.htm
90%WVO, 10% gas (ran fine here in FL)
85%WVO, 10% kero, 5% ethanol (this runs GREAT)
Summer I am going to try 100% WVO as soon as I get electric heaters on the main fuel line before the filter. If it works OK, I will go with 100% until about Oct-Nov when it cools off here."

DSE is not a new way to make fuel just a repackaged way of selling it.

The fuel seems to run really well and is much easier to make than bio-diesel. I've read the pros and cons of this method and I don't think I'd run it in a Direct Injection engine because it may coke up the chamber but it runs GREAT in my 1980 Mercedes 240D.

The one thing I'd like to stress with any "homemade" fuel is let it settle. It's always better to make any of these fuels several days in advance and then allow them to settle out any crud or water before you use them --- just use your head.

Good luck and let me know how it works for you.

Tony T

[Joe Leising]

Tony,

This has to be the easist bio-fuel recipe I have seen. I wondered if the DSE might not be a repackaged "snake oil". In reading the different recipes tried byt the guy in Florida it seems that the basic idea is to add a thinning agent to the WVO to make it flow and combustible (gas/ethanol) to make it burn better.

I your opinion do you think this is a viable fuel for the Cummins TBD? I like simplicity of this, and I think I will try the 85/10/5 WVO Kero Ethanol blend with a healthy dose of Power Service for peace of mind. What are your thoughts on using E85 in the mix? Where is a common source of ethanol for a guy on the street like me?

Joe

[Tony Turner]

This has to be the easist bio-fuel recipe I have seen. I wondered if the DSE might not be a repackaged "snake oil". In reading the different recipes tried byt the guy in Florida it seems that the basic idea is to add a thinning agent to the WVO to make it flow and combustible (gas/ethanol) to make it burn better.

Joe you're right, this is a very easy mix but I think you are missing the basic reason for the various components. The WVO is the "real" fuel in this mixture. The kerosene is the main thinning agent (along with lowering the flash point a tiny bit) and the gasoline, while helping to thin, is used to help lower the flash point.

Lowering the flash point helps with cold starts but you have to be very careful when lowering the flash point because if you get it to low the fuel will ignite to early in the compression process and really affect engine performance and maybe even damage the engine.

The Power Service Diesel Clean and Cetane booster adds back a little of the lubricating quality that you lost with the addition of the gasoline and it raises the Cetane level of the WVO (which is a little bit lower than petro diesel). WVO has great lubricating qualities but as you thin the oil with gas some of that goes bye bye. I would be scared to run the 85% 15% WVO and gas mix without finding something to help lubricity (if that's a word).

The Sta-Bil or DSE is used, from what I can tell, to stabilize the whole mixture and help keep the components from separating. I'm no chemist by any means but when you look a the MSDS sheet for Sta-Bil it's main ingredent is 2-Propanol (isopropyl alcohol). 2-Propanol makes up 95% of Sta-Bil and the other 5% is just called "additive mixture". I think the other 5% is some sort of surfactant because it makes sense. One thing you need in a fuel stabilizer is something to bind all the various components together and not bind the unwanted components.

There are several surfactant chemicals that will bind WVO, kero, ethanol, gasoline and any number of other "solvents" but not allow water to bind in the mix. In the manual that came with the DSE product under troubleshooting it says "if the engine has poor performance you may not be using enough of the DSE product. The DSE product will help to remove the trace water that may be in the mixture." Now that statement alone tells me that there has to be something in the DSE that will not allow the water to bind into the mixture --- but what do I know.

Someone on another site says that the MSDS sheet for DSE says it's dimethylbenzene & xylol. I was more than a bit confuse by this because dimethylbenzene & xylol are the same thing http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/xylol and both used as a solvent.

I'm not sure we will ever know what the other 5% is but I'm not sure it make a difference.

I your opinion do you think this is a viable fuel for the Cummins TBD? I like simplicity of this, and I think I will try the 85/10/5 WVO Kero Ethanol blend with a healthy dose of Power Service for peace of mind. What are your thoughts on using E85 in the mix? Where is a common source of ethanol for a guy on the street like me?

I have no experience with the Cummins engines but as long as it isn't direct injection I'd sure go for it.

I think E85 would be a good choice for use in a mixture but since we don't have it down here I have not gotten to play with it.

Ethanol is very hard to get (because you can drink it). We have a chemical supply place here that says they can get it but the reccomend Denatured Alcohol (ethanol with just enough methanol to make it undrinkable). You can buy it in Wal-Mart back where you get paint but I don't remember how much it cost.

If there is anybody out there that can shed any light on any of this or correct me where I'm wrong I'd love to here from you.

Later,
Tony T

[Tony Turner]

O.K! I did a little more research and this is what I found.

Sta-Bil is 95% 2-Propanol (isopropyl alcohol) and 5% Xylol/dimethylbenzene (Xylene).

Here is what the Columbia Encyclopedia had to say about Xylene:
"Xylene evaporates and burns quickly. Xylene does not mix well with water; however, it does mix with alcohol and many other chemicals."

I found a site that list all the products that contain Xylene and there are hundreds. Almost every fuel system additive made contains between 5 -15% of the stuff. Even Slick 50 has it in it as does gasoline and jet fuel.

One thing I left out of the post above was the use of a water filter. The final filter before the fuel reaches your car or truck needs to be a water filter. I like the Goldenrod water filter that has the amber colored housing and the drain in the bottom (cost about $30). You need this filter no matter which fuel you make, including biodiesel. It's cheap and the replacement filters are cheap and it works!! The filter element is designed to restrict fuel flow when it saturates with water so you know when to change it.

Later,
Tony T

[Bret Green]

I heating the house with the first batch made.
I mixed 15 gal. filtered WVO, 10 gal diesel, 1 gal gas, 2oz of stabil.
=58% wvo, 38% diesel, 4% gas.
this seems to be working fine.
Next batch I want to try going up to 65% WVO, 30% diesel, 5% gas.

If this continues to work I just need to find 500 gal WVO for the winter.

Thanks Bret

[richwolc]

Well, Bret and others,
It seems to me that I bought information on how to make this wonder fuel when all I really had to do was look on the web and get the info for free ---- we all learn from our mistakes.

Basically all you do is mix 85% filtered waste or clean veggie oil with 10% kerosene, 5% gasoline and a few onces of Diesel-Kleen+Cetane boost (Wal-Mart in a gray bottle) and a couple of onces of DSE (wonder chemical youhave to continue to purchase from them). Mix all of this together and pump it through a filter into your car, truck or tractor.

From what I've read in other places on the web, mixing with kero and gas has been done for years. It was the British government that suggested adding a Cetane booster and stabilizer to make it more "petro diesel" like.

It breaks down to this: 20gal filtered WVO, 2gal Kerosene, 1gal unleaded gas, 15oz Power Service+Centane boost additive, 3.5oz of DSE mix slowly for 5 minuets and put it in the tank. In the winter they advise you to up the amount of kerosene you use....

DSE is not a new way to make fuel just a repackaged way of selling it.

The fuel seems to run really well and is much easier to make than bio-diesel. I've read the pros and cons of this method and I don't think I'd run it in a Direct Injection engine because it may coke up the chamber but it runs GREAT in my 1980 Mercedes 240D.

The one thing I'd like to stress with any "homemade" fuel is let it settle. It's always better to make any of these fuels several days in advance and then allow them to settle out any crud or water before you use them --- just use your head.

Good luck and let me know how it works for you.

Tony T

Hi, Tony -

You mentioed toward the end of your message that you'd hesitate to run the home-brew described in a direct injected engine. I'm way less an expert than you are, but I have a friend who has a web site on home made fuels and he told me that's exactly what water injection is for. He asked me to mention his water injection page: http://www.greaseolineplus.com/page2.html

Regards,

Rick